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	<title>Comments on: What Carnegie might still teach us?</title>
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	<link>http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/</link>
	<description>the Irish for rights</description>
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		<title>By: cearta.ie Â» Reforming Legal Education, or not</title>
		<link>http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3665</link>
		<dc:creator>cearta.ie Â» Reforming Legal Education, or not</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/#comment-3665</guid>
		<description>[...] report on Educating Lawyers: Preparation for the Profession of Law (which I have discussed here and here [papers here] on this blog) to detailed analysis and finding it wanting. Some extracts: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] report on Educating Lawyers: Preparation for the Profession of Law (which I have discussed here and here [papers here] on this blog) to detailed analysis and finding it wanting. Some extracts: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cearta.ie Â» The Goals of a Law School Education</title>
		<link>http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3616</link>
		<dc:creator>cearta.ie Â» The Goals of a Law School Education</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/#comment-3616</guid>
		<description>[...] Foundation&#8217;s report on Educating Lawyers: Preparation for the Profession of Law (which I have discussed on this blog). Again Douglas Berman has proposed a hierarchy of goals for law school instruction [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Foundation&#8217;s report on Educating Lawyers: Preparation for the Profession of Law (which I have discussed on this blog). Again Douglas Berman has proposed a hierarchy of goals for law school instruction [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eoin</title>
		<link>http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3404</link>
		<dc:creator>Eoin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/#comment-3404</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.strath.ac.uk/staff/details.aspx?id=8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Paul Maharg&lt;/a&gt;, author of the stimulating &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.ashgate.com/shopping/title.asp?key1=&amp;key2=&amp;orig=results&amp;isbn=0%207546%204970%209&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Transforming Legal Education. Learning and Teaching the Law in the Early Twenty-first Century&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt; (Ashgate, 2007) has an excellent assessment of the Carnegie Study on his superb blog, &lt;a href=&quot;http://zeugma.typepad.com/zeugma/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Zeugma&lt;/a&gt;, in a post entitled &lt;a href=&quot;http://zeugma.typepad.com/zeugma/2007/07/educating-lawye.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Educating Lawyers&lt;/a&gt;. Some extracts:

&lt;blockquote&gt;... I think this is one of the best books on legal education to be published in a long time, and here&#039;s why. ... First, it&#039;s educationally literate ...  Second, the book is frank about the shortcomings of the J.D. as well as its strengths.  ... Third, it&#039;s based on field work.  Just not enough of that around in legal education -- the findings of the UK Nuffield Report on the dearth of empirical sociolegal research applies as much to legal education too. ... [Finally], the book has a transformative agenda. ...  The Carnegie book takes the first courageous step -- the important and public acknowledgement that legal education has to change at fundamental levels in our society.  It is too elitist, too bound up in academic culture, not sufficiently engaged in social concerns.  I like to think that academics like me have something useful to say on the subject (though perhaps that&#039;s just vanity) but the key point is that legal education, as with art education or teacher education or any other type of education is too important to leave in the hands of specialists. ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My sentiments exactly; I wish I&#039;d said all of that (though for what I did say about the Nuffiled sociolegal study, see my post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cearta.ie/2007/04/law-in-the-real-world/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Law in the Real World&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.law.strath.ac.uk/staff/details.aspx?id=8" rel="nofollow">Paul Maharg</a>, author of the stimulating <i><a href="https://www.ashgate.com/shopping/title.asp?key1=&#038;key2=&#038;orig=results&#038;isbn=0%207546%204970%209" rel="nofollow">Transforming Legal Education. Learning and Teaching the Law in the Early Twenty-first Century</a></i> (Ashgate, 2007) has an excellent assessment of the Carnegie Study on his superb blog, <a href="http://zeugma.typepad.com/zeugma/" rel="nofollow">Zeugma</a>, in a post entitled <a href="http://zeugma.typepad.com/zeugma/2007/07/educating-lawye.html" rel="nofollow">Educating Lawyers</a>. Some extracts:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; I think this is one of the best books on legal education to be published in a long time, and here&#8217;s why. &#8230; First, it&#8217;s educationally literate &#8230;  Second, the book is frank about the shortcomings of the J.D. as well as its strengths.  &#8230; Third, it&#8217;s based on field work.  Just not enough of that around in legal education &#8212; the findings of the UK Nuffield Report on the dearth of empirical sociolegal research applies as much to legal education too. &#8230; [Finally], the book has a transformative agenda. &#8230;  The Carnegie book takes the first courageous step &#8212; the important and public acknowledgement that legal education has to change at fundamental levels in our society.  It is too elitist, too bound up in academic culture, not sufficiently engaged in social concerns.  I like to think that academics like me have something useful to say on the subject (though perhaps that&#8217;s just vanity) but the key point is that legal education, as with art education or teacher education or any other type of education is too important to leave in the hands of specialists. &#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>My sentiments exactly; I wish I&#8217;d said all of that (though for what I did say about the Nuffiled sociolegal study, see my post <a href="http://www.cearta.ie/2007/04/law-in-the-real-world/" rel="nofollow">Law in the Real World</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Eoin</title>
		<link>http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3204</link>
		<dc:creator>Eoin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 21:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/#comment-3204</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://lsi.typepad.com/lsi/2007/05/how_crossdiscip.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How Cross-Disciplinary Training May Improve the Quality of Legal Education&lt;/a&gt; (from MediaLawProf):

&lt;p&gt;Seth Freeman has deposited &lt;a href=&quot;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=975501&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bridging the Gaps: How Cross-Disciplinary Training With MBAs Can Improve Professional Education, Prepare Students for Private Practice, and Enhance University Life&lt;/a&gt; in SSRN. Here&#039;s the abstract: &lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;p&gt;What can law schools do to address the criticisms in the Carnegie Foundation&#039;s January 2007 report on legal education? That report found that law schools are not teaching students how to be competent lawyers. One particularly promising answer is cross-disciplinary training with MBAs, which leading law schools such as NYU, Stanford, the University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard have embraced in recent years. In this article, I explore the value of such courses, and discuss a cross-disciplinary course that I successfully debuted in the Fall of 2006 at NYU entitled, &quot;Negotiating Complex Transactions with Executives and Lawyers.&quot; More generally, I argue that cross-disciplinary courses offer special advantages for students, schools, universities, and employers, and deserve much more emphasis in professional training and higher education. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://lsi.typepad.com/lsi/2007/05/how_crossdiscip.html" rel="nofollow">How Cross-Disciplinary Training May Improve the Quality of Legal Education</a> (from MediaLawProf):</p>
<p>Seth Freeman has deposited <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=975501" rel="nofollow">Bridging the Gaps: How Cross-Disciplinary Training With MBAs Can Improve Professional Education, Prepare Students for Private Practice, and Enhance University Life</a> in SSRN. Here&#8217;s the abstract: </p>
<blockquote dir="ltr"><p>What can law schools do to address the criticisms in the Carnegie Foundation&#8217;s January 2007 report on legal education? That report found that law schools are not teaching students how to be competent lawyers. One particularly promising answer is cross-disciplinary training with MBAs, which leading law schools such as NYU, Stanford, the University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard have embraced in recent years. In this article, I explore the value of such courses, and discuss a cross-disciplinary course that I successfully debuted in the Fall of 2006 at NYU entitled, &quot;Negotiating Complex Transactions with Executives and Lawyers.&quot; More generally, I argue that cross-disciplinary courses offer special advantages for students, schools, universities, and employers, and deserve much more emphasis in professional training and higher education. </p>
</blockquote>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cearta.ie &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Law in the Real World</title>
		<link>http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/comment-page-1/#comment-2667</link>
		<dc:creator>cearta.ie &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Law in the Real World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cearta.ie/2007/03/what-carnegie-might-still-teach-us/#comment-2667</guid>
		<description>[...] Foundation&#8217;s report on Educating Lawyers: Preparation for the Profession of Law (which I have already discussed on this blog) comes Law in the Real World: Improving our Understanding of How Law Works [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Foundation&#8217;s report on Educating Lawyers: Preparation for the Profession of Law (which I have already discussed on this blog) comes Law in the Real World: Improving our Understanding of How Law Works [...]</p>
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